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Post by Bunta on Jun 19, 2006 11:09:10 GMT -5
Thanks Al  |
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Post by MAGGOT on Jun 19, 2006 11:43:35 GMT -5
WOW! Stunning work mate!
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Post by teazR on Jun 19, 2006 11:57:50 GMT -5
Excellent job.
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Post by Vilante on Jun 19, 2006 21:00:27 GMT -5
Turned out great Bunta, looking forward to the show version  |
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Post by Psymonhilly on Jun 20, 2006 1:26:45 GMT -5
one word says it all........................................
beautiful
nice one bunta ;D
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Post by Dan on Jun 20, 2006 8:58:21 GMT -5
Stunning work there bunta, one of the best skins ive seen in a long time =D
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orre
Skinner
Posts: 98
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Post by orre on Jun 20, 2006 10:58:03 GMT -5
Avsome When will we see the showversion??? |
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Post by wobbly on Jun 21, 2006 22:03:55 GMT -5
Seems to be a number of images not showing up. Some great skins still viewable though. Was hoping to see some more XRRs  Did you always skin at 2048px, or did you start out smaller, in which case, was the transition problematic at all? I always skin at 1024px, mainly because I won't get tempted to go crazy on fine details that'll be lost in the lfsworld conversion. I'm also interested to know how long some of these take, considering you draw vectors over existing decals to make clearer examples. I tend to do my team decals using the text tool in raster mode, and then resize them as necessary for the skins. Most of my cars are completely symmetrical, so even the main shape designs are converted to rasters to make the final skin, in order that I only have to draw half of the top/front/rear and a single side. I plot paintbrush marks, then cut out the necessary size, and flip or mirror as required. I'm not sure how I can easily do it with the vectors in PSP 8, as I don't then have the benefit of seeing the absolute co-ordinates of the brush dots to make accurate symmetry without having to think about it. |
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Post by Bunta on Jun 21, 2006 22:47:20 GMT -5
The reason some of my pics are missing is due to a recent change in web hosting. Since I am plan to remake my entire garage soon I have been reluctant (or lazy) to fix all of the broken links. I hope to find some spare time to fix up my garage soon. I used to skin at 1024 but I find the quality inadequate and it makes my work look like crap. There was no real transition to 2048 except for the fact that I had already created kits for all the cars in 1024 (prior to S2 alpha). So I had to remake all of the kits which takes between 2-6 hours each depending on the complexity of the wireframe and the mapping of the texture. My entire skins (and kits) are made in vector, not just the decals. I have used no post-processing at all except on my last skin where I multiplied the default skin over my completed vector work to create faint shadows (hardly noticeable IMO). I don't use Photoshop or PSP so I can't really relate to parallel techniques very well compared to Corel Draw. But don't expect to get the same result from using "vectors" in PSP or PS because these programs do not use true vectoring. I think that might be why many artists groan about using the pen tool in PS (although I have never seen it used so I am assuming it is less friendly than Corel's tools). Having said that, the results people get from using "vectors" in their paint programs are (IMO) superior to many standard masking and painting techniques and are very useable on LFS skins, especially in higher resolutions. So I would encourage skinners to get skillful with their vector-style tools if they have them in their software. Most of my skins would take from about 8 and 24 hours of labour to complete. But let me clarify that statement. The first time I skin a particular car (there are some I have never yet attempted) I must make all of the individual parts of the skin before I even get started on design, this can take a long time and is rarely enjoyable. If I have not yet created a kit for this car then I will create the vector wireframe first, in which case you can add several hours to the initial job. Next I might create some special components to enhance the overall skin. This could include outlining vents and intakes, skirts and spoilers etc and making vector shapes to fit exactly over the top of each part in question. This is also time-consuming but is in part a design stage so it can be somewhat enjoyable or challenging. Now that I have created all of the basic and special components I can start the real design stage, the fun part. I begin in most cases by laying down some sort of design or graphic element to improve upon the plain colour that I have chosen as a base for the skin. Once again, all artwork is created in vector no matter how trivial the addition might be. Once I am happy with the car's design I turn to decals and additional graphic elements to fill out the skin and try to balance it out using colour and shape. The first stage I mentioned, where I make the initial components, never needs to be repeated again for the next skin of that type. I can use the same vector "template" for each skin of that type and just jump right to the design stage. Having every little detail and component available in vector is a valuable time saver for the next skin of that type and because of the nature of Corel each object is fully editable and scalable with no quality loss whatsoever. The biggest (and only) loss of quality that occurs is when I save the skin as a JPG. I use no additional compression when exporting as a JPG (Corel allows 100 increments of compression and 100 increments of smoothing). So, my skins can take a long time to make initially but less so once I have created a template and special parts for the car in question. Because all elements are shaped literally by hand (using the mouse) my work is time consuming, but the quality of the imagery is very satisfying to me. I have a lot to learn yet about graphics, and Corel, and it is good to know that LFS drives people's passion for CG artwork. I hope in some small way that my skins inspire new ideas and encourage new artists to take up thy mouse (or stylus) and get hooked on CG art, and of course LFS. |
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Post by Vilante on Jun 21, 2006 22:58:21 GMT -5
Great read Bunta!
I use PS and I'm yet to learn much about vectors. Would you say this is worth learning? You say it's worth learning but PS doesn't do "proper" vector's so I'm just wondering. Would I be correct in saying that vectors are used so that the shape/s can be enlarged or shrunk infinently without loss of quality?
At the moment I use the pen tool to make a selection in the shape I'm after and then fill this selection to create shapes on my skins.
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Post by MAGGOT on Jun 21, 2006 23:20:26 GMT -5
The Pen tol creates paths, not selections. If you created a selection from the Pen tool, then filled it, it would not be a vector graphic anymore. I do 95% of my work in PSP7, not using any vectors for the design. I guess I'm just used to making things in Raster formats. I'm old fasioned that way  Every now and then there is a smalle vectorized element, or Photoshop element, though. Some great insight there, Bunta |
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Post by Bunta on Jun 21, 2006 23:35:32 GMT -5
Great read Bunta! I use PS and I'm yet to learn much about vectors. Would you say this is worth learning? You say it's worth learning but PS doesn't do "proper" vector's so I'm just wondering. Would I be correct in saying that vectors are used so that the shape/s can be enlarged or shrunk infinently without loss of quality? At the moment I use the pen tool to make a selection in the shape I'm after and then fill this selection to create shapes on my skins. It has been some time since I read the technical data about PS vectoring vs say Corel and Illustrator so excuse my lack of definition. What I do know for sure is the quality of Corel or Illustrator vectoring is noticably better than that of raster programs "vectoring". The main difference is much smoother curves with less jaggedness, in other words: better definition. This is particularly appartent on very small details or on sharp curves and linework. Using your pen tool will (should) provide a much smoother result than just painting an arc, for example. In LFS we can't use lossless image formats or vector images as skins, we use JPG files. JPGs already use a compression technology that is ideal for getting reasonable quality from a small file size so they are not a bad choice for 3D gaming. The downside to image compression and optimisation is reduced image quality. Once I save a vector object or image to JPG there is quality loss. Saving a Photoshop or PSP "vector" image as a JPG will almost always produce a file of slightly poorer quality image than one made in Corel or AI. I guess the best way of understanding the results is to say that the original material is of higher quality when made in a vector program. Understand too that the main difference is outline clarity both before and after a JPG conversion. Colours and fills don't show any noticable difference, at least to me, no matter if you use Corel, or PSP, or PS. It is mainly the clarity and smoothness of outlines that make the difference. As previously discussed, vector objects are scalable without quality loss meaning you can bend them, resize all or part of the object, alter the outline in every way imaginable without getting all of those nasty jagged edges and blurry outlines that resizing many images can produce. Of course once we save to JPG the image will still suffer from some loss including colour bleeding over into adjacent pixels. This is unavoidable. Using a 2048 x 2048 resolution the bleeding is less severe. Andylec and I determined (back in the earlier days of wireframe experiments) that very good accuracy can not be assured below about 8096 x 8096 pixels, which is unsuitable for in-game textures. So we compromised at 2048 which offers pretty good accuracy without making the texture too large for today's video cards. You can see this inaccuracy for yourself by resizing one of my 2048 masks down to 1024 then applying to a blank white square of the same size. Use it in the CMX viewer and you might notice some of the black mask appearing on the car around the edges of each mapped area. Ideally I need to make seperate masks for the 1024 size allowing more space between the mask and the mapped area to stop the mask from bleeding onto the skin. Learning "vector" isn't really a good way of phrasing it. I learnt how to use Corel Draw which happens to be a vector art program. For you to learn how to make vector art you simply need to learn how to use the vector software of your choice. It shouldn't be any harder than learning other comprehensive graphics software. I never used a tutorial for Corel and the books that came with my software are all too basic despite having a lot of pages. So basically I am an idiot for not reading tutorials that would have fast-tracked my progress. I suggest that if you want to learn how to use new graphics software that some tutorials would be a real boon. |
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Post by Bunta on Jun 21, 2006 23:43:22 GMT -5
The Pen tol creates paths, not selections. If you created a selection from the Pen tool, then filled it, it would not be a vector graphic anymore. Can you tell me this: If you create an object with your pen tool, can you then export or save it as an EPS (or even a wmf) file? |
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Post by Vilante on Jun 22, 2006 0:25:21 GMT -5
Thank you very much Bunta!!
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Post by MAGGOT on Jun 22, 2006 0:27:13 GMT -5
I have absolutely no idea. LOL I'll check right now...
2 mins later...
Yup, looks like you can. I don't know if it is a true eps file or not, but you can indeed save as an eps.
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Every now and then there is a smalle vectorized element, or Photoshop element, though.
But I found a link you were looking for, check your last post.
Dec 24, 2015 17:56:47 GMT -5
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But I found a link you were looking for, check your last post.
Dec 24, 2015 17:56:47 GMT -5
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